Reply: Gloomhaven:: Variants:: Re: Mindthief Nerf Variant

by danom

gabrielrockman1 wrote:

Did you even read my post at all???

Yes I read your posts. No need to be so aggressive and call other people trolls because they don't agree with you.

gabrielrockman1 wrote:

I've never claimed that self healing is great. Just that a +2 self heal on all melee attacks is better than not using any augment at all.


My question was about whether or not the other augments would be worth using if The Mind's Weakness was removed from the game. It was not about whether or not the other augments are worth using when The Mind's Weakness is an option.

A very relevant question to this thread is if we removed The Mind's Weakness from the game, would the other augments be worth using? If the answer is no, then nerfing The Mind's Weakness won't make the other augments worth using. If the answer is yes, then if The Mind's Weakness is weakened, the other augments do have a chance of being used. And the utility of doing extra melee damage compared to the utility of a self heal is IRRELEVANT if we're discussing whether or not the augments are worth using if The Mind's Weakness is removed from the game.

They would be as much worth using as they are right now. For damage you would either go with the Poison/Muddle augment or use range attacks and no augment at all. For occasional healing/tanking you would go for shield or self heal just as you can do it right now. But that does not change the fact that both of them are not really effective as I explained in my post, since the Mind Thief simply is no competitive tank class.

And apart from that I still don't get why you would discuss class internal spec balancing without even caring about the balance in comparison with other classes which is the much more important aspect. If you fix the former one by destroying the later, then this is simply no worthy fix.

The Mindthief is not a ranged damage dealer or a tank. The Mindthief is a crowd control specialist, and they are better at it than any other starting class. The Mindthief really shines in crowd control. They start off at level 1 with TWO non-loss stuns, one of which also does 5 damage to the target. They also start off with a non-loss push 3 card, a non-loss invisibility card, a loss range 5 disarm, a loss move+stun on the bottom of a non-loss melee stun, and at level 2 they get a range 4 non-loss immobilize.

Because of 2 single target stun effects, one of which does basically no damage while the other one requires melee range? We will talk about that again when you unlock some real crowd control specialist classes.

As I said before - what class of the starting six does crowd control better than a Mindthief?

When talking about balancing you should not only consider starting classes which I would all only call average or even weak in comparism to the other classes. Also he has exactly one stun option more than the tinkerer who has an AoE netgun in addition.

His stuns make the mind thief a slightly better crowd controler than the others. But they don't make him a specialist. And it surely is not strong enough to justify a drop of his damage dealing options.